WARTIME WHEELGUN
Shooting a Webley MKIV
This is probably my favorite article to date, it was just a lot of fun to write, I had a friend help me make it all work and I have since started casting ammunition for this gun which is a fun way to spend a Saturday. It was also published in the March/April 2021 of the Canadian Firearms Journal. As a result of it being published I received an email from a retired Toronto police officer saying he had used one in the 70’s, I exchanged a few emails with him because he was simply an interesting man. Its also worth noting that currently, the Liberal party of Canada has used an OIC to “freeze” handgun transfers while they push through Bill C21 to make it permanent (as well as enacts the largest firearms ban in Canadian history) as a result, the only people in Canada who will get to enjoy these guns are the people who already own them. It makes me sad to think that no Canadian will ever again feel the sense of joy and accomplishment of getting one of these old guns to work again.
Like many gun owners, I have a lengthy mental list of firearms I would like to own someday. Of course, they must be available for the right price for me to actually make a purchase. One such firearm is a Webley revolver. I am not sure why I want one, maybe its because it’s a top break or because I have a soft spot for old military firearms. Either way, a friend of mine owned one and I was a touch envious, and having shot one, I knew I really wanted one of my own.
I have come close to buying one several times, even to the point of having one in the digital shopping cart and thinking, “I better wait, $300 is a lot right now.” Well, now that I’m a touch older, but still no wiser, I decided to try and track one down. Sadly, it looks like the price on them has nearly doubled since the first time I almost bought one. I asked around, and the few that I could find were well over $500 and often the tanker model with the bobbed hammer. I wanted cheap and I wanted the option of single or double-action.
Finally, one morning, earlier this year, the stars aligned. I woke up a little earlier than usual and was too lazy to get out of bed, so instead I went on my phone and casually perused some websites known for selling used guns. I do this whenever I am bored, just in case something from that mental list jumps up. In this case, Ellwood Epps had a Webley MK IV in 38/200 (aka 38 S&W). The price was about right, just a touch over $400. Once my wife woke up, before she was able to get some coffee into herself to gather her senses, I asked her if I could scoop it up. On her way to the coffee maker, she mumbled, “Yeah, sure, whatever.” It’s a classic Jedi mind trick, use it carefully.
While I waited for the government to rubber stamp the transfer, I did a bit of research and found out this gun, according to the serial number, was made in 1944 (via armsresearch.co.uk). As a result of being made for the war effort, mine is also stamped “WAR FINISH.” I am told this is there because the manufacturer was rushing production and didn’t want people thinking all their guns were that rough around the edges. I do have to say though, this specific one seems to have a nice finish compared to some of the images I have been able to find on Google. Mine only has some milling marks on smaller features and parts, while some photos show a rough finish on the sides of the frame itself. In my digital travels I also found that the revolver was originally designed to have a 200-grain bullet, hence its designation of 38/200.
Tracing the lineage of the MK IV in 38/200 is a wild ride. The MK numbers seem to have been somewhat reused on new models in new calibers and a lot of information online is contradictory, so I did my best to sift through. Webley & Scott began in 1790 making bullet moulds and has manufactured firearms since 1834 (webleyandscott.com). Their first top break model, the MK 1 in .455 Webley being adopted by the British and by extension the commonwealth armies in 1887. After several quick upgrades and modifications, they were at the MK VI still in .455 Webley. These were the service revolver for the Boer War and the First World War (wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley_Revolver). Shortly after the First World War it was determined that .455 Webley was too large for some soldiers to use effectively, after trials it was replaced with a small but heavy 200 grain .38 caliber, hence 38/200. It was found, in this weight, to have similar stopping power as the .455 Webley. Initially the contract to make the revolvers for this new cartridge was given to Enfield to make the No 2 Mark 1. However, it seems Enfield could not keep up with demand and Webley was given a contract to make their MK IV in 38/200. It was the standard sidearm for British and Commonwealth forces through the second world war and into the early 1960s (norfolktankmuseum.co.uk/webley-revolver/). Police in Singapore and Honk Kong used them up until the 1970s (wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley_Revolver). Currently, Webley & Scott only make their pistols in air gun versions. India Ordinance Factories still make several pistols based on the Webley design but in .32 caliber. Notably there is a 2 inch, 5 inch, and lightweight model (4.5” barrel and titanium frame) and I would absolutely love to get one of these (ofb.gov.in/civil-trade). The lightweight model, called the NIRBHEEK, retails for 105,000 rupees (or about $1825 cad) its just a shame its in .32 caliber so its prohibited here.
One unfortunate thing I found in my research was that 38 S&W ammunition is expensive. Nearly a dollar a round locally. When I purchased the Webley, I didn’t plan on reloading for it, but that plan changed immediately upon seeing the price of ammo. So, I ordered some brass and dies. They were easy enough to find, but a 200-grain bullet does not seem to exist for a .38 caliber revolver. It seems this has been a problem since the beginning for the 38/200. During the Second World War munitions for the revolvers had to come from the USA in the form of 38 S&W, complete with a 145-grain projectile which was found to be underpowered for battlefield usage (norfolktankmuseum.co.uk/webley-revolver/).
The old Webley finally came in the mail and it was time to make it go bang. The only projectiles I had handy were some 148 grain wadcutters that my 1873 cattleman revolver (357 Mag.) likes. The most useful information I could find was in my old Number 11 Speer Reloading Manual from 1988 (the year before I was born). None of my newer books or online resources had anything to contribute. I loaded some up with Bullseye powder and headed to the range. I was shocked by two things. First, how much smoke Bullseye produces, I had never used it before and actually stopped to check online that this was normal. Now that I know it’s normal, I find it kind of fun, like shooting black powder. The second shock was that my point of impact was about eight inches low of my point of aim at 10 yards. This worried me as my sights are not adjustable.
As for the rest of the gun, the trigger feels good in single-action, no creep and minimal over travel. In double-action it was a bit of a gong show, as the only way I could shoot it and hit paper was if I went very slowly, to the point that it was faster to shoot it as a single-action. Glad I didn’t buy the tanker model. The gun was also a lot snappier in the hand than I thought the small 38 S&W would be, likely owing to the pistol’s small stature.
I was now doing research on how to make a pistol shoot higher. It turns out, its very counter intuitive to a rifle guy like me. The trick is a heavier bullet, so that is goes slower and has more dwell time in the barrel as the recoil pushes the muzzle up. This makes sense since the gun was designed for a 200-grain bullet. I was now in an odd place; in that you cannot buy cast lead bullets in small quantities and I didn’t want to buy 500 of something that would give me the same problem. I asked around online about different bullet weights and received no useful help, which is normal for online questions. Typically, asking a question like that online turns into someone suggesting the problem is the person shooting the gun. Here’s a funny side story; I mentioned once I was having trouble with my CZ 550 in 375 H&H and someone suggested I was “probably limp-wristing it.” So, take the internet’s advice with a grain of salt. That said, my internet inquires were not a complete waste as a friend from 3-gun had spotted one and contacted me to let me know he was casting 158 grain bullets for his revolver and would happily give me some to try. I swung by his house hoping to grab ten and he gave me nearly fifty. I know Kurt is a good guy because we are relatively new acquaintances, and he was casting them in a single-cavity mould. He also showed me his powder coating setup.
I ran home and loaded those bullets up as fast as I could and hit the range the next day. The darn things worked perfectly! Offhand the groups were still not great (5 or 6 inches at 10 yards), but they were to point of aim. Using a rest, I was able to get about a 3inch group at 10 yards. Using a rest, however, proved to be an interesting lesson in harmonics, resting on the barrel caused the groups to migrate about 5 inches south of point of aim. This made me aware of two things. One, I need to work on my pistol shooting and two… I had to start casting and powder coating. I had already been batting around the idea of casting for other pistols and before this latest OIC nonsense I was casting for my cannon already, although casting a 13,000-grain (1.8lbs) slug for a cannon is a bit slower of an affair than a 158-grain pistol bullet. Luckily for me, my stepdad has been casting for years and has his local tire shop supplying him with lead, he also, more importantly, has the space and the melting pot. So now I have gone out and bought a two-cavity mould to make bullets and a used toaster oven for coating them.
Sadly, COVID-19 restrictions mean I cannot go out and start making bullets just yet, so I may have to crack and buy a box of loaded stuff off the shelf in the meantime… dang it.
In any case, the work and the fun will continue for some time. I’ve learned a bunch and my education isn’t over. If you like getting old gun shooting again, these vintage Webleys are great projects.
Posted in Marksmanship, Published Workwith 1 comment.